Sorry Listener, I didn't get your question. I was kind of distracted by that tutu you're wearing in your picture and, um... never mind.
Brock Talon
JoinedPosts by Brock Talon
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Thought control - sexual fantasizing is wrong - May 2016 Watchtower
by Listener in>>the bible reveals that jehovah issaddened when people pursue a wick-ed course and ‘the inclination of theirthoughts is only bad all the time.’ (readgenesis 6:5, 6.
) from this we can per-ceive that sexual fantasizing is wrongbecause it can lead to serious sin that isforbidden in the scriptures and is out ofharmony with jehovah’s way of think-ing.the disciple james wrote: “the wis-dom from above is first of all pure, thenpeaceable, reasonable, ready to obey,full of mercy and good fruits, impar-tial, not hypocritical.” (jas.
3:17) beingaware of this, we should be moved toreject entertainment that fuels impurethoughts and inclinations.
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Brock Talon
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Honestly, Did Jehovah's Witnesses Do Anything POSITIVE For You?
by minimus ini was raised as a witness and am very thankful that i am out.
having said that, i think my upbringing produced positive qualities in me.
do you believe that anything positive came from your being a witness?
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Brock Talon
Yes. I have a chapter in my book Escape from Paradise called "Good things can come in small minded packages". The premise of the chapter was to explain all the meetings we did and how they helped me in the end. The one that actually was useful was the ministry school and learning how to be a public speaker. I think I started that school at 8 years old and it had a positive effect on me.
By the time I was older and went to college I was able to do effective public communication even though I took more courses on public speaking and even joined Toastmasters. I was always kind of ahead of my classmates in those courses because I was a JW and we all just did public speaking as a matter of course.
The hard lessons I learned from that "ministry school" has paid off for me even up to today. I do public speaking now for my work and I thank in part the JWs for that skill. Yes, I realize I could have learned it from some other place in some other way, but still, I learned it from the JWs.
The other related meeting was the Service Meeting which in part helped me to learn how to overcome objections, create "pitches", practice what you are going to say to "sell" someone, etc.. These are basic sales skills that also proved to be useful to me later in my life, especially at work. I suppose if I didn't need those skills in my job now, I wouldn't notice this, but the fact of the matter for me is I do need them.
So, I do give those elders credit where it's due because good things CAN come in small minded packages.
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Do you cut more slack for XJW's ?
by Phizzy ini find that when i meet people i tend to be very relaxed and will assess them eventually, but i don't want any jw judgmental nonsense, so i allow them a lot of "slack", and take them as they are etc etc.. this has been fine with normal people who have never been a jw, and i have had no problems.. but i find my judgment has been awry with some xjw's, i tend to think that they will have gone through a similar journey to me, and therefore they will have determined, like me, to be a much better person than i was as a jw.. but just the odd xjw has caught me out, and despite giving them many chances, i have found that they are toxic, and simply not the kind of person i wish to have in my life.. i suppose this is down to my naivety, but i just thought that they might have wished to turn out better, not so it seems.. i have to say this is actually the exception, nearly every xjw i know is actually rather lovely, and loving, but not all.
silly me, still hoping for paradise i suppose..
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Brock Talon
I think leaving that very controlling religion just allows people to be who they really are. It's sort of like when people drink too much: some are nice drunks, others mean drunks, some get weepy or horny, others want to fight, curse and break things. The loss of inhibition in either case simply allows people to exercise their id. So I don't assume anything in regards to what to expect when I encounter an ex-JW, they will be who they will be, and my common past experiences with them may mean absolutely nothing. -
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Escape From Paradise - One year anniversary - Thanks everyone!
by Brock Talon intoday marks the 1 year anniversary of the release of my second book, "escape from paradise".
i wanted to take the time to thank everyone here who was supportive of this book and for all the great feedback i received on it.
you guys rock.. of course, not all the feedback was pleasant.
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Brock Talon
Possum,
Yes, absolutely. The reviewer just didn't understand the "high control" part of the equation and was thinking of the JWs as any other religion you could just quit. That is why I had to apologize... I felt it must have been my fault that I didn't explain it properly, which was at least part of the purpose of my writing the book in the first place: I wanted the never-JW to comprehend what it is like being a JW, and then to become an ex-JW.
For this guy, I totally failed.
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Escape From Paradise - One year anniversary - Thanks everyone!
by Brock Talon intoday marks the 1 year anniversary of the release of my second book, "escape from paradise".
i wanted to take the time to thank everyone here who was supportive of this book and for all the great feedback i received on it.
you guys rock.. of course, not all the feedback was pleasant.
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Brock Talon
Hoffnung, Thank you.
I usually don't respond to reviews, but the guy had it so wrong I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought perhaps he just misunderstood the book's premise. After his response to mine I realized I was dealing with an idiot who took the word "Escape" from my title completely literally. He said I didn't "escape", so my title was a lie and that's why the book earned a 1 star review.
I suppose there is no way someone can "escape" from mental bondage? For him, it had to be a literal escape from ropes, chains or a prison cell in order for it to not be "a lie", as he put it.
The hilarious thing is, at one point in his rambling he declared: "If you had named your book, 'why I left the Watchtower after 35 years' or something like that, THEN that would have been OK."
I wanted to respond to that, "Well, sir, that actually IS the book's subtitle... so, subtitle's don't count?"
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Escape From Paradise - One year anniversary - Thanks everyone!
by Brock Talon intoday marks the 1 year anniversary of the release of my second book, "escape from paradise".
i wanted to take the time to thank everyone here who was supportive of this book and for all the great feedback i received on it.
you guys rock.. of course, not all the feedback was pleasant.
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Brock Talon
Truthexplorer - thanks for the shout out.
ToesUp - I hope that happens too! I really don't know why more ex-Bethelites don't write about it.
Muddy Waters - Wow, that is a powerful endorsement. I hope someday you can finish my book and that you can heal from all the hurt. I would love to know if the book helps you in any way. Thanks so much dear.
Brock
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Escape From Paradise - One year anniversary - Thanks everyone!
by Brock Talon intoday marks the 1 year anniversary of the release of my second book, "escape from paradise".
i wanted to take the time to thank everyone here who was supportive of this book and for all the great feedback i received on it.
you guys rock.. of course, not all the feedback was pleasant.
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Brock Talon
Today marks the 1 year anniversary of the release of my second book, "Escape from Paradise". I wanted to take the time to thank everyone here who was supportive of this book and for all the great feedback I received on it. You guys rock.
Of course, not all the feedback was pleasant. For your entertainment, I would like to share with you its harshest review:
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Reveal News: How Jehovah’s Witness leaders are responding to child abuse scrutiny by Trey Bundy
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://www.revealnews.org/blog/how-jehovahs-witness-leaders-are-responding-to-child-abuse-scrutiny/.
by trey bundy .
december 14, 2015 .
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Brock Talon
Nitty Gritty,
This is a very good question you ask: "If Mr. Bundy is such an exceptional investigator, then he ought to ask himself why? Why is an organization that claims to be morally superior to any other organization on earth "supposedly" protecting pedophiles?"
Trey expressed this very question to me himself as a matter of fact. He expressed surprise to me that they were not willing to meet with him to explain their side of the story for the record. He asked me my opinion on why I thought they wouldn't want to hurry to explain their side of the story to the press.
To me though, a related question would be: "Why would an innocent organization stonewall a reporter who could help them clear up misconceptions?"
Both questions are answered by this: Extreme hubris, coupled with a reckless application of Bible theology.
First, I don't believe it is the Watch Towers GOAL to protect pedophiles. No clear thinking person would believe they get behind closed doors and say to each other: "OK, let's see if we can make up some rules that would make it VERY easy to abuse children so that we can attract as many child abuse cases per member as the Catholic Church." No. That doesn't happen.
But what does happen is their hubris gets the best of them in their application of their often warped Bible theology and then bad things happen to their members as a result.
This is about more than child abuse issue too. It can be applied to their attitudes about the extreme shunning (disfellowshipping) policy, their rules related to blood transfusions, their attitudes towards higher education, their not allowing members to get a voting card in Malawi, and so on. They take what they believe are Biblical principles and apply them in an extreme and often reckless way that result in their members committing suicide, needlessly dying in operations, staying poor and depressed and financially stressed the rest of their lives, getting persecuted and killed in Malawi, and so on. No, they don't SET OUT to cause these things, but their policies and attitudes RESULT in them. If challenged by anyone by any of these things, they will double down because they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave after all, backed by Jehovah Himself. They can't be wrong, and if "True Christians" must suffer for their faith, so be it.
Regarding the child abuse problem specifically, this recklessness and hubris consists of them thinking they actually know better than the authorities on how to handle "congregational matters" and "to keep free from reproach on Jehovah". They don't consider that the "two witness rule" is one of principle to make sure an innocent person is not convicted on one person's word, but that in modern times this can mean guilt being proven in more ways than literally "two witnesses to the same alleged event."
Because of this hubris and recklessness, they try to handle these things themselves internally (where there is often partiality shown because JWs have a very definite pecking order) rather than relying on outside authorities to neutrally investigate ALL ACCUSATIONS and just letting the chips fall where they may with people who do this for a living. They actually believe they know better about the psychology of repeat offense tendencies, how to know when someone is "truly repentant" and won't offend again and so on. They actually believe this approach protects Jehovah's Organization.
Again, hubris and recklessness.
Regarding the dishonesty part, this comes in when the Watch Tower claims there is "no official policy of silence" that is enforced for an alleged victim. This is what the Wikipedia page says on it:
The hearing was told that in response to a summons issued by the commission, the Watch Tower Society had produced 5000 documents including 1006 case files relating to allegations of child sexual abuse made against members of the Jehovah’s Witness church in Australia since 1950—each file for a different alleged perpetrator of child sexual abuse. Those documents showed that of the 1006 alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse "not one was reported by the Church to secular authorities". The commission was told: "This suggests that it is the practice of the Jehovah’s Witness Church to retain information regarding child sexual abuse offenses but not to report allegations of child sexual abuse to the police or other relevant authorities."
An elder from the Australian branch office said that when not required by law to report abuse allegations to authorities, the church left the decision to report to authorities with the victim and his or her family.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses%27_handling_of_child_sex_abuse(Side note: It's pretty sad when your church has an entire Wikipedia page devoted to "alleged" child abuse problems.)
Back to my point, can you believe that in 1,006 potential cases of child abuse, from files produced by the Watch Tower Society itself mind you, NOT ONE got reported to the authorities. Not one! Do you really think this is by accident or coincidence?
And this after the Watch Tower representative twists the truth by saying "the decision to report to the authorities is with the victim and his or her family". Really? You mean this was up to 1,006 families to report an alleged abuse to police and not one of them decided to do it, without any pressure whatsoever? Do you really believe this? This is the same claim the Watch Tower makes when they say "A family member can speak to a disfellowshipped one if they want to, it's their decision."
Sure, families can talk to disfellowshipped ones "if they want to", sure a family can report an alleged abuse to authorities "if they want to", sure someone can get a blood transfusion "if they want to", but they will pay the price for it in their congregations one way or the other, either by losing privileges, losing friends and family relationships or even being disfellowshipped for good.
This positioning of "you can do it if you want to" is a bald faced lie and every JW and ex-JW knows it. -
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Reveal News: How Jehovah’s Witness leaders are responding to child abuse scrutiny by Trey Bundy
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://www.revealnews.org/blog/how-jehovahs-witness-leaders-are-responding-to-child-abuse-scrutiny/.
by trey bundy .
december 14, 2015 .
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Brock Talon
Not quite Nitty-Gritty. Trey's findings are based on many inputs, not just ex-JWs.
For example, the Watch Tower published their official rebuttal regarding the Royal Commission, which Trey's paper publishes a link to after each article about it so that anyone can read the official words from the Watch Tower themselves. Nothing can be more fair than that. It's a long read, but it will back up Trey's summary of how the Watch Tower defends itself. The link is here if you wish to see it.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2649236-Submissions-on-Behalf-of-Watchtower-Bible-and.html
Whether it's the Watch Tower's take on the so called "two witness rule" or their take on recidivism, it is clear to an outsider like Trey that although they claim a high moral ground in their rebuttals, the proof is in the pudding: countless child abuse cases coming up again and again with the same issue always at the core. That issue is simply the abusers are coddled and protected more often than not.You have to read all of Trey's articles to understand what I mean by this, I won't try to recap all of the points here. If you haven't read Trey's articles, you should. They are excellent objective journalistic works. Read first, then judge later.
I know from speaking with him that Trey will speak to anyone who can help shed light on the subject. He actually has spoken to many current JWs, at least those who will talk to him. Unfortunately, he has found that just speaking with local elders only goes so far because in the end, the arrow always leads to Bethel. We all know that local elders do not have that much personal discretion when it comes to things like these: they ALWAYS write the headquarters to get advice on serious cases and they always get the same advice. So, that said, when Trey tries to speak to those at Bethel making the policy, he is stonewalled as a "tool of Satan". (He has actually been called that.)
Trey has also spoken with lawyers on both sides of the issue as well, who each add their own viewpoint into the mix. Most of the prosecuting attorneys' have no personal dog in the fight. They are not ex-JWs... they just prosecute the cases they take on to the best of their ability from a secular standpoint. The defending attorney's of course are usually Watch Tower controlled, but he will speak to them if he can as well.
So, no, you are wrong my friend. It is not only ex-JWs that Trey is speaking to. That's the Watch Tower excuse you are positioning yourself with. I'm not trying to change your mind though, believe what you wish. I am saying this for those reading this thread that I believe Trey Bundy is trying his best to find out what the real truth is about all these things, and that he will simply report what he finds.
Again, read all of Trey's articles and reference materials first, then judge afterwards. Then you can speak from a position of knowledge.
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Reveal News: How Jehovah’s Witness leaders are responding to child abuse scrutiny by Trey Bundy
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://www.revealnews.org/blog/how-jehovahs-witness-leaders-are-responding-to-child-abuse-scrutiny/.
by trey bundy .
december 14, 2015 .
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Brock Talon
I've had the privilege of speaking with Trey at length on more than one occasion and one of the interesting things he told me was that he has visited Brooklyn Bethel multiple times in order to give Watch Tower representatives a chance to tell their side of the story, on their own turf and at his expense mind you. Each time they chickened out and wouldn't even speak to him -- at all. Period. So, they are lying to their people when they say Trey has a closed mind, when in fact THEY are the ones with the closed minds.
-Brock Talon
As a journalist, all Trey is interested in is facts. It's one of the reasons he contacted me, and contacted many others in the ex-JW community he thinks might be able to shed light on whatever he is reporting. In my case it was my Bethel experience from my first book he was interested in when preparing for his last visit there. He does extensive research on anything he is writing about, which is something most of us can see in his reporting.
I'm positive that if he were to come up with exonerating information on the Watch Tower, proving them innocent, he would simply report that. He has no agenda other than finding out and then reporting on the truth. It is just as good a story to report a poor innocent religious organization being set up and persecuted by allegedly lying disgruntled ex-members, than it is to write what he has been reporting.
Of course, what he has found instead is that all the things people like Barbara Anderson, Candace Conti and others have been telling him are 100% true and it is this religious organization that are the liars.